 Short Stories: October 30, 2013 Issue [#5963] |
  Short Stories
This week: Writers as Readers. Edited by: THANKFUL SONALI Library Class!  
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| As writers, do we read the works of others with more enjoyment, less enjoyment, more analysis ... what? |
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Dear Readers,
You could say it started with Mavis Moog's Facebook status. While her status, and the discussion that followed, was sparked by a particular novel, the basic issues apply to all writers, I think. Here are excerpts.
Mavis Moog's status, Oct. 18
Do you ever get that feeling that you're not enjoying a book? I have been trying to get stuck into J K Rowling's "Casual Vacancy." It's not bad, but there is a lot of telling rather than showing and I just cannot engage with it.
When I go to bed I glance at my Kindle and then decide I want to sleep. In the afternoon, I find other things to do during my normal reading spot. Yesterday I even cleared the dog shit from the garden rather than sit and carry on with the book. Hmmm, I think it might be time to admit defeat. Sorry, Ms. Rowling it's not good.
The conversation that followed (excerpts):
Deborah Daniels Life's too short in my opinion to spend your leisure tie engaging in something you're not enjoying We have so many many mandatory things that are not enjoyable so this time should be. I have ditched numerous books over the years for this reason.
Alison Thomas Much as I loved reading the Harry Potters, I do remember that the first time I read The Philosopher's Stone to my son, I thought it was really badly written. Exactly the same criticism - too much telling and not enough showing. Like a child had written it.
Andy Millward I heard that had Rowling not already made her publishers and herself many millions by virtue of writing the Potter saga, the likelihood is that she would not have found a publisher for this clumsily-written tale. The critics were certainly not kind.
Mavis Moog I didn't read the critics, perhaps I would have saved myself some time if I had. "Casual Vacancy" is just very poorly written. The story might be good, and if it would get going I might have found out, but despite one interesting character, I was bored, so I gave up.
Susan Wortham David I didn't think I'd read the HP books after all the hype, and they ARE supposed to be a series for young people...but I loved them. Absolutely, LOVED them. I don't think her style would work for certain kinds of stories...the "telling" thing works well when she's created her own world and we have to "see" it from her perspective, but without the uniqueness I can see where it might not work. Honestly, for anyone who harbors a great imagination I highly recommend the HP series. Took me a long time to break through the hype and read them, but I'll be forever grateful I did.
Sonali Bhatia Just wondering - is it only us writers who worry about 'telling' or does it really bother readers who aren't writers?
Mavis Moog Good question. It is possible that a reader not trained in either creative writing or literature appreciation may not easily identify what it is that makes the book less fun/accessible. I am sure they'd feel the difference though.
Susan Wortham David Hmm. Since I've always been a writer I don't know if I could answer that. I know, as a teacher and tutor it's the first issue I tackle...
Mavis Moog I teach it, too but only at quite senior levels. I don't go on about it to GCSE English Language student because they don't need to know for their exams. And it is not really useful in Eng Lit, because we are only studying writers who know what they're doing anyway.
Sonali Bhatia Let me try and draw a parallel. I don't understand much about cricket. I only understand whether India is winning or losing. So for me, cricket is purely a spectator sport. There has to be a boundary or a wicket for it to be exciting. Whereas I once saw an expert commentator who said that the most absorbing hour of play for him was when there were the least runs hit and no wickets taken, because it showed the true power of bowler v/s. batsmen, the tactics they used against each other. I'd actually switched the TV off partway through that, thinking 'nothing much is happening'. So for players, it's different, for spectators, it's different. Is that true of writing?
Mavis Moog What amazes me, Sonali, is how many successful writers there are, who do not have formal training. But I do think you can spot those who have training and those who are "naturals". Often, successful writers play dumb, too. They say they don't worry about technicalities when it is clear they do because they get it right. Then there are people like Jeffrey Archer who writes good plots very badly but has excellent editors, who make them readable.
Susan Wortham David I think Mavis is right in saying that a "regular reader" might not be able to pinpoint WHY a certain book doesn't read as well as another, but he or she would still understand that something didn't click with the story.
Mavis Moog I really love good writing. I can enjoy books with no plot if they are beautiful, insightful and vivid. Even short stories should be about feelings, ideas and images before they need to be about plot - in my mind. Most poor but successful writers are plot-driven and lots of readers will forgive anything for a good plot.
Susan Wortham David Mavis, I agree completely. Great prose is better than poetry to me.
Sonali Bhatia I think you've hit the nail on the head - a 'good plot' is what the boundary and wicket are in my cricket analogy!
Elliott Manley I read all the Harry Potter books - and I've no idea why - I thought they were dreadful, especially the later ones that were far too long and crying out for a good editor.
Bev O'Donoghue I've read all the 'Potter' books and agree that the last few were long winded and could have been shortened. I think for children's reading , J.K.R. gave children who wouldn't normally pick up a book engage in a magical adventure/ fantasy. Children were excited to read again and those that couldn't asked their parents or other family members to read them to them. In schools Potter books lined desks in vast numbers from primary through to secondary. However I too could not get into 'Casual Vacancy' it just didn't grab me! It has stayed on my bedside table for months and can't bring myself to pick it back up.
Jany Gräf Mavis, I found it hard to get into too, but i was worth it in the end. Couldn`t put it down. There were too many names and characters at the beginning, many of them not important to the main plot at all, and I kept getting them mixed up. The storyline is however, sad to say, typical of British society these days. Heartbreaking at the end. I`ve pre-ordered her next one. She can tell a yarn.
Liz Lovell I'm with you, Jany - once I got the characters straight in my head it all made sense and I actually enjoyed the last half.
Mavis Moog Oh no, Jany and Liz, you're making me want to have another go!
*********
That's the FB discussion - most of it, anyway. (I've left out some bits about other genres and authors.)
What I conclude, personally, from this is -
1. Writers do read differently, in two ways - i. they're probably more willing to read on for a longer time, even when they find something boring; ii. though they're caught up in the story and characters, they're distancing themselves and looking at it as writers, too.
2. A good plot is important, but for the discerning reader, characterisation and setting are equally important or more important.
3. A good editor makes a lot of difference. (A bad editor, I guess, makes a difference by NOT making enough of a difference!)
4. You can love one story / book / series by an author and hate another story / book / series by the same author.
5. While a writer may be able to express it in technical terms and jargon, all readers know whether they like a story / book or not.
6. Writers / discerning readers discuss books and authors and take each others' points of view into consideration.
Hope you found the discussion useful - and thanks, Mavis and everyone who expressed their views and allowed me to mention them in this newsletter!
Read on! Write on!
Sonali
PS - Since it's a discussion, I'm including the feedback to this newsletter here:
Thanks jack-tyler for
I think readers who don't write see the front of the movie set, so to speak, that nice middle American town where Jimmy Stewart lives. If you are a writer, you have the ability to see the scaffolding that holds up that facade, so you hold the other writer you are reading to a much higher standard. It's like two magicians trying to impress each other. "Look, a rabbit!" ~ "Big deal. Pick a card..."
Thanks LinnAnn -Book writer  for
I read differently as a writer. There are/were favorite authors that now I read and shake my head. Some I just smile through because I loved the books when I was 20 years younger. lol. Thanks for your hard work. Love, LinnAnn
Thanks Fi  for
Absolutely loved this newsletter! Thanks for sharing the discussion (and for featuring my poem in the editor's picks). It was really interesting reading everyone's different opinions, and your conclusion is excellent. It got me really thinking. 
Thanks mblank for
I think, while learning to write, most of us become overly obsessed with following the rules and therefore get aggravated with writers who don't and assume the writing is poor based on what we're told we should be doing.
When first learning to write, I barely ever found a book that wasn't riddled with "errors" by the rules of creative writing as I've learned them and it took a lot of fun out of reading. Since, I've gone back and read certain favorites who do things "wrong" (Vonnegut comes to mind, with his comma splices and omniscient narrators), and realized despite these so called lapses, they're better writers than many who seem to do it just right. There's a lot more to the craft than strictly adhering to convention.
This realization has helped me to once again enjoy reading and not toss every book aside at the slightest creative writing crime. Thanks for the thought provoking newsletter!
Thanks Doug Rainbow for
I don't believe a writer should always show and never tell. Sometimes showing is forced, unnatural, and gimmicky. But when a writer tells he/she should tell it well. The same thing goes for showing. As for books, there are those uninteresting ones I don't finish. There are those I finish and enjoy but would not read again. And then there are a few I have read and re-read and will read again. The differences are a lot more complex than "show, don't tell."
Thanks dwarf2012 for
Thanks for the excellent newsletter.
Thanks Jacqueline  for
My teacher tells me I have a habit of telling rather than showing. I try to show more in my assignments, but find it hard. Maybe I should read her book to see how not to write a book. I also have loved books from a particular Author and hated others that author has written.
Thanks Tileira for
I agree with mblank. A lot of classic literature like Austen do all sorts of things "wrong", and are enjoyable precisely for the particular style that creates. But equally everyone had personal thresholds for flaws. I can cope with a weak plot and odd style for really good characters, and weaker characters for a good style and plot, but on each of those factors there is a breaking point where a piece becomes irredemable for me.
Received on WDC's Facebook page, thanks for the comments!
Do writers read differently?
Scotty King I read with my ears.
Tony Mazzara As a horror writer, yes. Compare to how I might write it, scenes and characters.
Shoshale Tenowitz Yes they read and allow their minds carry them off into beautiful places, so that people get excited, thrilled, and enjoy this.
Amaya T.C Blake I read while I write and sometimes I can read a scene differently than what's written on the page; but other times, compared to how I write it, the scenes and characters, I read it the way it's meant to be read. |
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A poem by a brand new member!
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 A big thank you to those who responded to "Short Stories Newsletter (February 19, 2013)"
I had my first Dialogue Only Contest entry published outside Wdc in 2009. I love dialogue only. However saying that, the biggest problem is keeping the reader in the know who is talking. One slip of the "enter" finger and the new line will have the reader lost. I find in reading here on Wdc, if there is a question as to who is going to continue the conversation, please include an action tag to remind the reader. It is confusing if one has to stop and go back. Quick-Quill 
"How do you make readers identify with characters who are not from their own milieu?" Why, that's where fiction comes in. A writer who hasn't been a billionaire should still be able to imagine one. Or a billionaire writer (JK Rowling) is still able to imagine the inner working of a troubled teen. NaNoNette 
its funny i would get this.... i just had a talk a bit ago about how dialogue made me stumble.... thank you rdbenny
Wow what a great newsletter! I love that you wrote it all in dialogue and about dialogue to help the reader understand how a conversation works and how it works well
blue jellybaby
Intresting article. Re-Reading Ender's War (Orson Scott Card) Reading a line of dialog..THEN finding who 'SAD' it, is SOOOO irritating.
My work stands at 176.5 K wds, and not a he/she SAID in the lot. My reader knows who is 'about' to speak... and how they sound.(shout, whisper, etc) bobneH .. aka.. just bob
This was not only very informative but a fun and entertaining way of presenting your chosen topic for the newsletter!! I learned something and enjoyed it, too!! THANK YOU!! mARi☠StressedAtWork
I loved the dialogue about dialogue! Brilliant! Elle - on hiatus |
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