Submissions and Giving away your Rights

I e-mailed the following letter to a person who was listed as a Moderator for the Poetry Forum for The Rose and Thorn.

http://www.theroseandthornezine.com

If I receive an answer, I will edit this post so as to include it here.

I found the link to The Rose and Thorn by way of a post in

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The forum post and Website was posted by leonhart

Writing and writing for FREE concerns me GREATLY. I guess I know what the theme any next Newsletter I get to write will be.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

~~~~~~~

Hello Angie,

I found my way to your site and e-mail by way of The Rose and Thorn. I got to The Rose and Thorn by way of my membership on Writing.Com. I was reading in a forum there and another member spoke highly of The Rose and Thorn. I noticed that you were listed as a Moderated in the Poetry Forum. Now with that out of the way...


I have a question and I don't know whom to ask. I was considering submitting some work, but when I read in the submission guidelines of The Rose and Thorn:

"you are also consenting to grant us a non-exclusive right to edit, modify and reprint your submission."

That takes me out of the considering submitting any of my work, as I have HUGE reservations. I am willing to make edits to my own work based on a publication standards by a Website that is considering publishing my work, but I will not and cannot give a blanket agreement to allow someone to edit or modify my work without my consent. Why not ask a writer to make the changes and resubmit a work to be considered for publication? And since there is no payment involved in publishing with the Rose and Thorn I cannot agree to blanket reprint rights.

If the owners of the Website, The Rose and Thorn, decide to put together some Anthology then where does that leave an Author once you have blanket reprint rights?

I am surprised that so many must be so desperate to say that they are published as to allow themselves to be taken advantage of by signing away all rights other than a byline. Big Whoop. Authors have to eat and pay bills too.

Do you know whom I should be addressing these concerns to? If so please pass my e-mail on to them as I assure you this correspondence will be posted in my portfolio on Writing.Com.

Look forward to hearing from someone in the very near future.

Sincerely,
Linda Tabor
The Critic
http://Writing.Com/authors/thecritic

UPDATE

Received this response 09-10-2004:

Hi Linda,

I passed along your email to the editor, Barbara Quinn, this morning.

Angie Ledbetter

~~~

Received this response from Ms. Barbara Quinn, 09-10-2004:

[e-mail] to me, angiedled
10:51am (6 hours ago)

Hello Linda,

Angie forwarded your note about rights to me. It came at a good time as I'm in the process of revising our guidelines which have been the same since 1998. In all this time, no one has ever had any objections to them, but I do understand your concerns and hope our new ones will make you more comfortable. We're always available for questions and comments here and we do try to help the writers we publish out. We're all writers at the zine. All of us are volunteers who devote our spare time to putting out the zine, and we believe we've managed to create a special spot for writers on the net. Yes, we are still learning! Everyone who helps out here does so because they love it.

With regard to editing, we reserve the right to edit submissions for publication, but we endeavor at all times to maintain the integrity of the work. Once a piece is accepted, editors work one on one with authors and we constantly are told how much we have improved the work. We make suggestions and we clarify and I think we have an incredible record of pleasing writers with our efforts. If we catch typos or grammatical errors, we're going to change those, but beyond that it's a give and take between author and editor. As writers we're all sensitive to author feelings. The people we publish seem to understand how important, and rare, it is to receive constructive criticism.

If we ever offer an anthology of our works (we haven't yet done that, though it is on our wish list) we would contact the authors for permission. We did have the opportunity to have our works featured on a radio show and the authors were all thrilled to be included.

This new language should clarify the issues:

By submitting a piece to us, you are also consenting to grant us a non-exclusive right to publish, modify, edit and archive your work on this site. We reserve the right to edit submissions for publication, but we will endeavor at all times to maintain the integrity of your work. We will consult you about any dramatic changes, and work with you one on one to improve your work. You still retain full rights to your work under U.S. copyright law and it remains your own copyrighted property. Occasionally, we select works we have published for showcasing on radio or other types of shows, for reprinting at events such as literary fairs, for nomination for awards such as The Pushcart, and your permission to publish with us extends to such events, showcases and nominations. We will attempt to notify you of such events.

Best to you...

Barbara Quinn
Publisher & Managing Editor
The Rose & Thorn Literary E-zine
theroseandthornezine.com

~~~~~~~

In Ms. Barbara Quinn's e-mail response to my questions and concerns about The Rose and Thorn's submission guidelines she says, "for nomination for awards such as The Pushcart".

Before I can intelligently reply to Ms. Quinn's e-mail I need to dissect, investigate, and understand exactly what she is saying, so...

What is the Pushcart?

http://www.pushcartprize.com/

And the following is from The Pushcart website:

About the Pushcart Prize series...

The Pushcart Prize: Best of the Small Presses series, published every year since 1976, is the most honored literary project in America. Hundreds of presses and thousands of writers of short stories, poetry and essays have been represented in the pages of our annual collections.

Writers who were first noticed here include:
Raymond Carver, Tim O’Brien, Jayne Anne Phillips, Charles Baxter, Andre Dubus, Susan Minot, Mona Simpson, John Irving, Philip Lopate, Philip Levine, and many more. Each year most of the writers and many of the presses are new to the series.

Our Pushcart Prize editions are found in most libraries and bookstores. Each volume contains an index of past selections, plus lists of outstanding presses.

~~~

The Pushcart Prize was named among the most influential projects in the history of American publishing by Publishers Weekly.

“These authors are not only our finest storytellers, poets and essayists, they are also the guardians of our language... this book is essential.” — Library Journal

A New York Times Book Review notable book of the year.

“Must reading for anyone interested in the present and future of America’s arts and letters.” — Kirkus Reviews

A Book of the Month Club selection

Winner of the Carey Thomas Award for Creative Publishing

“A truly remarkable collection of the finest small press poems, essays and short stories.” — Booklist

“The ex-officio house organ for the American literary cosmos.” — Chicago Tribune

~~~

The nomination process

Little magazine and small book press editors may make up to six nominations from their year’s publications by our December 1 deadline.

The nominations may be any combination of poetry, short fiction, essays or literary whatnot.

Editors may nominate self-contained portions of books — for instance, a chapter from a novel. We welcome translations, reprints and both traditional and experimental writing.

One copy of each selection should be sent. No nominations can be returned. There is no entry fee. We also accept nominations from our staff of permanent, distinguished Contributing Editors.

~~~

Okay, Ms. Barbara Quinn is a publisher. The Pushcart is an award for publishers. Personally, I still don't believe that the submission guidelines of The Rose and Thorn are fair to writers.

I do believe that Ms. Quinn's intentions are to gather as much possible work created by individual authors, and without regard to a writer's understanding of the rights her guidelines take away from every Author who submits work to be published on her website, she and her concerned group will: right to publish, modify, edit and archive your work on this site.

Ms. Quinn and The Rose and Thorn may win a THE PUSHCART PRIZE someday, but at whose expense?

Don't Be Fooled:

Ms. Quinn's Rose and Thorn Submission Guidelines say:

You still retain full rights to your work under U.S. copyright law and it remains your own copyrighted property.

YOU HAVE JUST LOST FIRST RIGHTS OF PUBLICATION

Do Ms. Quinn's submission guidelines explain this fact or even mention it?

Sure you own the copyright according to U.S. copyright law, but if you market or sell any work that you have submitted to Ms. Quinn's The Rose and Thorn, you no longer have FIRST RIGHTS to sell ever to any publication on the face of this planet.

It is a writer's duty and personal responsibility to understand exactly what your signing, or agreeing to by submitting work to be published on a Website.

Is there a warning about anyone under the legal age of majority being unable to agree to a contract?

NO!

Heres a NEWS FLASH: If you are a minor, the law requires a parent or legal guardian to consent to all legally binding contracts. Duh!

My Reply to Ms. Barbara Quinn -- E-mailed 09-12-2004:

Dear Ms. Quinn,

I was wondering if your submission guidelines are going to mention that a writer will no longer have First Rights of Publication if another publisher would express interest in a piece previously published on The Rose and Thorn Website.

It is absolutely true when you say:

"You still retain full rights to your work under U.S. copyright law and it remains your own copyrighted property."

The problem is that most new authors truly do not understand that by submitting any work for publication to The Rose and Thorn according to your submission terms that they will have just given away their FIRST RIGHTS OF PUBLICATION.

I also did not find any mention in the submission guidelines about any writer under the legal age of majority would need permission from a parent or legal guardian. Putting a notice that authors must be at least 18 years of age to submit work without a parents or legal guardians consent could save The Rose and Thorn some serious legal headaches down the road.

I admit it is a writer's duty and personal responsibility to understand submission guidelines and terms, and fully understand the scope of exactly what they're signing, or agreeing to by submitting work to be published on a website.

As a writer yourself, I trust that you know how excited writers get when their work is accepted for publication. I also notice that regardless of a writer’s work being accepted for actual publication or not in The Rose and Thorn, a writer loses their First Rights of Publication just by the single act of submitting their work to The Rose and Thorn website. I want to believe that this is not what you intended.

Certainly you, as Publisher and Editor could differentiate between the act of submitting work and the actual acceptance for publication of any writers work, as it pertains to the legal rights an author needs to retain in order be able to sell and publish if a short story, poem, or essay that is not accepted by The Rose and Thorn.

So, if you differentiate between submitting and being accepted for publication, if any writer’s work is not suitable for The Rose and Thorn E-zine or other publication pursuits of your ezine, then the writer will still be able to have a marketable piece of work with all his or her sellable rights to their work still intact.

I also think it is true that most writers do not stop to think what effect an all encompassing submission guidelines can mean in legal terms of resell value. Submission guidelines that literally take ownership simply through the act of submitting with no guaranty of publication can nearly destroy all future marketability of a short story, poem, or essay with any other publisher or publication.

Since The Rose and Thorn states:

"Our intent is to showcase the works of up and coming talent and to encourage writers in their literary endeavors."

As the Publisher and Managing Editor of The Rose and Thorn, I hope that you are willing to put extra time and care into assisting the up and coming talent you want to encourage in understanding their legal contractual responsibilities. I hope the assistance that you provide will include full disclosure concerning exactly what an author is giving to The Rose and Thorn, or any publication with similar submissions terms.

By helping writers to understand the legal issues within any publications submission guidelines and terms, The Rose and Thorn could set itself head and shoulders above all other ezines. Your publication is beautifully formatted, and well produced. Certainly your well-proven, active promotion of writers works in other media, such as radio and at literary fairs are highly commendable, and far exceed any other literary ezine efforts on a writer’s behalf that I am familiar with.

I personally think it is expecting an awful lot of new, up and coming talent to fully understand the difference between keeping their copyright, while still giving up all First Rights of Publication, especially since The Rose and Thorn is unable to offer any monetary consideration.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to continuing our correspondence concerning submission guidelines and terms.

Sincerely,
Linda Tabor
Freelance Writer

This is the e-mail I received as a result of my last e-mail to Ms. Quinn. I will not be writing to her again.

[e-mail] to me
More options 9:45am (2 hours ago)

Hi Linda,

When a writer submits they don't lose their rights of first publication by merely submitting. Plain and simple, that's just not true. Our language says: By submitting a piece to us, you are also consenting to grant us.." We don't say "you grant us", we say "you are also consenting to grant us". That means in the future, once we accept the piece. Writers make an offer which we may or may not accept. We couldn't possibly assert that we had rights to the pieces we reject, nor would we. Read as a whole, I believe a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that they don't lose first rights merely by submitting.

As for minors, we deal with acceptances on an individual basis and don't see a need for anything more detailed on the site.

Beyond that, an in depth discussion of rights is not appropriate to our guidelines. Rights are important for writers to understand and we hope that the writers we publish make themselves aware of their rights. We're here to publish writers and we will continue to do that as long as we can and as long as we keep receiving good works.

Barbara

I believe that Ms. Barbara Quinn is sincere and means what she says in her letter concerning the submissions guidelines and terms for The Rose and Thorn.

I am probably NOT a resonable person, because regardless of what Ms. Quinn says, the submission guidelines and terms state:

By submitting a piece to us, you are also consenting to grant us a non-exclusive right to publish, modify, edit and archive your work on this site.

The submission terms do not say:

If we accept your submission for publication, then sometime in the future, you are also consenting to grant us...

I am sorry that there is not an Industry wide standard for submission guidelines and terms.

I am equally sorry that there is not a requirement to publicly alert someone under the age of 18 that they need a parent's or a legal guardians consent to submit work to be published.

I have done all I can do.

Writer's Beware. Make sure that you understand all terms and submission guidelines. Ultimately it is YOUR responsibility to know to what you are agreeing.

Sincerely,
The Critic