18+ General Discussion Forum

First, I'd like to say that the whole problem of this debate revolves around whether you believe the bible is the living word of God. If you don't, then why even bother with the ten comandments. I completely understand and respect your opinion on that, even though I don't agree with it. You said, "If God loves us he wouldn't have created hell and sent people there for eternity in the first place." God does not send people to hell. People choose to go their by denying his free gift of salvation." You said, "If God sent Jesus to teach people to follow the Golden Rule, then anyone who follows the Golden Rule should go to heaven." Remember (I believe I've stated this before), you don't get to heaven by doing good things, being a good person, or following all of God's commandments (old testament or new testament). The only way to get to heaven is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the law (the law here just means being a good person, doing good things, and following all of God standards so that he was indeed perfect). Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly and was sinless. This means that is the only person who does not deserve hell based on his works. The great thing is, even though he didn't deserve death because he didn't sin (the bible says, "For the wages of sin is death"), he died anyways, and became the ultimate sacrifice. None of us can fulfill the law like the bible says he did, so the only way to get to heaven is through him. All we have to do is accept his gift of salvation that he is able to give because he sacrificed himself. You can't add anything like good works or being a good person because Jesus already covered all that. You said, "Both crucifiction and eternal damnation are cruel punishments. Therefore, the God you describe is cruel, at least as I understand it." Okay, I'm not sure how crucifixion and eternal damnation (hell) are related, but I'll take a stab at it anyway. To clarify things, Jesus was crucified and died. Then, he rose again on the third after that to show his power over death. Now, hell, on the other hand, is not something I would like to think of as "eternal damnation". God is perfect, so he is forced to punish sin (sin is essentially rejection of God). Besides, hell is more like "eternal seperation" from God. God provided a way for everyone to get to heaven, all we have to do is accept it. In fact, that way included dying a gruesome death so that we could be with him when we die. I just don't see how that's unloving. Hell, is reserved for those who reject his free gift because there is not other alternative than for God to seperate sin and imperfection from himself. We are made sinless and perfect through Christ in God's eyes. God must punish sin because he is perfect. That's not unloving. What would be unloving, however, would be if God provided no other alternative than to die and go to hell. But that's okay because God did: JESUS CHRIST! You said, "Our hearts(consciences) and minds are precious gifts that we should use to their fullest. Therefore no one should believe something that their hearts and minds find unproven, improabable, or immoral. In my opinion, anyone offering something in exchange for our belief is not giving it away for free." Well, it is free in the sense that we don't have to "do" anything for it accept believe. However, believing in a perfect person who gave up his own life in a gruesome death just for you isn't too much to ask (in my opinion!). You said, "Justice might dictate that some behaviors deserve punishment, but love would never require that a punishment be cruel or eternal." Well, it is already a settled fact that we are all sinners and can't be in the presence of God. Therefore, God doesn't send us to hell because we are bad people, but because we reject his free gift of salvation. I completely understand that we have different opinions, and I respect yours. :)